ur the guy who wanted the sec status of gank hot spots increased...so ur serious??

u could just avoid them, use scouts or follow ur freighter with logi friends/alts.

if not, u could always transport less each time or otherwise reduce the value of ur cargo.

You're assuming that the gank was made for profit reasons. Sometimes it can be to send a message (which can have wider effects). Or maybe IT IS for profit and gankers are simply getting paid by another entity behind the scenes.


"Tactical tradeoffs." You want to be safer? Get a scout. You can't afford one? Then you have to make a risk assessment on whether or not you think you can make it unmolested.


What makes you so special that you should not need a scout?

Even PvP pilots are called "idiots" for moving battleships or capitals without a scout or escort.


You make it sound like they have no use now that people have realized that ganking a freighter can be done efficiently. This is not the case. They can still do their job... it is you, the player, who must adjust... not the game.


Also... the Teir 3 battlecruisers may be able to pump out more DPS (and thus require fewer numbers to perform a gank) than the old gank ships of choice... but they are also more expensive. Overall... the cost of suicide ganking has not increased or decreased by all that much.
The only thing that has happened is that the people doing it are more visible than before.

you dont need 2 accounts yourself, maybe its just a matter of hiring another corpy to scout for you. And charging a bit extra for freighter services or paying someone to help guard you. Perhaps hire command ships or command T3's to boost your defenses?

I whole heartedly understand it is annoying and troublesome. But realize they are working as a group in some way to kill you, so doesn't it make sense that you will have to work as a group to counter it?

Very good point. At what point does operating on such small margins become the reason for what seems to be unrelated failures?

Something as valuable as a loaded freighter, should never even undock without an escort of some sort. An alt that can web and provide some defensive fleet bonuses doesn't take all that much training. You are losing ships because you are cutting corners on security.

I can see the need for a mini freighter. I can see that it would be a nice addition.

Just a few things to take into account.

Chances are, it wouldn't hold much more than 200,000m3.
I believe it's EHP, wouldn't be much higher than current freighters and may even be lower.
You would still get ganked.

Given the decreasing cost of alpha damage (ie: tier 3 battlecruisers) it makes sense for the rest of the universe to adapt.

It seems reasonable for either another tech II freighter that is EHP focused with somewhat less hauling capacity (75% of base?). Or another tier of frieghter that has higher EHP at the expense of capacity (50% - 60% of base?)

Since Tech 2 stuff is suppose to be specialized, how about a Tech 3 Orca like ship. Have cargo subsystems to add how much and which types of cargo bays you want, or even offensive or defensive buffs.

Got a link to this?

That would mean that the current freighters need to be nerfed, since the costs of ganking one have increased.

Before, a bunch of insured BS would make it a very low cost (even a direct gain during periods when miners were particularly stupid). These days, even with tier-3 BCs, the costs are much higher since it's a total loss when you attack something. So if the EHP should be adjusted to fit this new ganking cost, the EHP would go down. Fortunately, cost is not a balancing issue so we won't see that kind of nerf to freighters.

I'm not. The killmail is.

GǪor it shows the junk you had in your hold, among which was a double-wrap that they wanted to bet on.

GǪwhich leaves a fourth option to get confused by: wrap in container.

So no, at any point there is a wrap in a KM, there is ambiguity to what the gankers saw and what the full value of the haul actually is. You may say that you don't double-wrap or put X in Y, but the KM doesn't tell the full story and the wrap immediately hints at the gankers betting on a bit of luck. You are making assumptions about perfect information for all parties involved, and that's just foolish.

You may be standing still, but that's just how it is. I can't explain it any clearer to you.

So what you're saying is, you're complaining about some ROL guys using at a minimum 945m isk in hulls alone, let alone the T2 mods required, to gank what was a freighter which may or may not have been carrying cargo worth as little as 500m (no, I'm not going to go calculating each and every single item on there to verify the killboard's values are sane).

In short, a newbie ganking team used more ships than they needed, to gank something which won't even cover half of their investment, and this is worth whining about.

Welp, I guess we're due for a mining barge-style buff to freighters soon, then.

Jump freighters have more EHP, but hold less cargohold. Why can't they be the solution?

[quote=Red Frog Rufen]



I lol'd. It takes 5 guys working together, according to you, to gank a freighter, and yet it's ridiculous to expect you to work with even one other person as an escort for defense? As far as I'm concerned, if you can defend yourself properly with 4 escort pilots per freighter, then the manpower is about correctly balanced with 5 people required to gank you.

And I'm fairly confident that with 4 scouts/logi ships following you around, you'd see a dramatic decrease in freighter losses.....

300k m3 freighter, 5 million ehp. You'd still whine if you got ganked.

I'm getting really tired of pointing this out to you people. It should be pretty obvious.

Um...tech2 would not solve any of your complaints at all... let's use frigates as an analogy.

Tech 1frigates take like... a day to train.
Tech 2 frigates take about a month and a half to train.

Tech 1 frigates cost about 500,000 isk maximum.
Tech 2 frigates cost around 12,000,000 isk or so.

If we were to apply these same ratios to a tech 2 freighter, it would require many months of training to fly one, and it would cost around 20 billion isk. In other words, as bad or much worse than the requirements for a a jump freighter.

Again, you seem to want a bunch of buffs without paying the same price for them that every other type of player pays for buffed ships.

People keep harping on about how "tier 3 BCs make it too easy", and they forget that before they were introduced, tier 2 BSes were used with just as many guns, and it cost less.

Oh, and in case you haven't figured it out yet, CCP are turning the niarja/uedama gates into vigilante heaven on dec 4th, with the launch of crimewatch 2.0. So if you want to do your bit to stop gankers from ganking freighters, just show up on those gates and wait for someone to turn/be turned into suspects, and go to town. vOv

Of course, I still expect people to not step up sufficiently, or at the very least to keep whining about how it's too easy, even though we're looking at the coordination of a lot of people to pull off a single gank.

u dnt get insurance pay outs when u've been bawssed by concord

Hurr I ****** up, it's not 550 kills the last 20-24 hours, it's 5000. so 0.12% of the total kills is the correct number.

So there's 10 people spending their time and their money to gank something which needs to carry around 2b to reliably break even. What's wrong with that? It's 10 people spending their time in one out of two systems, providing 0.12% of the kills in all of EVE pr 24 hours (actually it's probably less, since I don't think I counted more than a 20 hour period today), why are these 0.12% of kills so special they need to be looked at so bad by CCP?

i did show u a bit of the math to show how it would work, but if ur going to be that ignorant then screw it. dnt do anything and continue to do what u do the way u do.

and btw, no talos does 3000dps. when ur this stubborn and narrow minded, im amazed uve lasted in eve this long.

You're claiming there's a huge need for a new freighter because the ganking is out of control. I'm pointing out just how small a fraction of the ships killed monthly and daily it takes before you're whining about how it's out of control.

Don't like the stats? Tough noogies.

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/CONCORD_Details

19 seconds...tho its not 100% consistent. and eve uni points to 19 seconds until the 'first felt action' of concord...so things can go on a little longer.
it appears a talos like this can do 1640 dps and 6389 alpha...thats still not 3000dps and like ive said, u dnt have to rep faster than the incoming dps to save the freighter, just make it last long enough for concord to arrive

u dnt need a new toy. u need logi

What you said was that there was "a big raise in freighter ganking".

Incidentally, there's no direct correlation between the new BCs and freighters being ganked. Freighters weren't suddenly ganked because the new BCs were introduced.


As a way to "counter those kills", yes.

You're looking at 2 systems which are "dangerous". So what's wrong with you adapting ever so slightly beyond "hey ccp give us a ship with more HP or we'll quit" by, oh I dunno, bringing logis, ecm, webs, hauling the stuff across those 2 systems in smaller pieces and then go on your merry AFK way etc?


Dock up, rep, continue hauling?